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But, of course, anything that would help prevent any China Elevator of a serious crime is only a good thing. DONVAN: Are your two heroes also violating everybody else's privacy by reading this material off of the machine? NOLAN: Yup. Yup. DONVAN: Is that a problem? NOLAN: I think it's one of the paradoxes we sort of play with in the show and one of the questions that Finch asks himself. I think it's really important - you know, I mean, I don't - I think, although it's apparent, I don't have - I'm pretty torn myself about the idea of surveillance in this way. You know, I grew up in England, where the Panopticon and the idea of a total surveillance state was a given. And they actually put the cameras up in a very - very prominent locations.
So it was a deterrent, as the last caller was sort of asking about. I think, you know, for our characters, the idea is they're sort of taking the surveillance state - and much as the show is about the idea of the surveillance state and asking that question, it's also assuming the surveillance state. It's here. We're sort of stuck with it. DONVAN: I took note of Finch saying at one point the best place to hide is in plain sight. But I think the message that your show also tells us that now everywhere is in plain sight, and that maybe there's nowhere left to hide. All right, guys, I want to thank you. Jonathan Nolan is creator and executive producer of the new CBS drama "Person of Interest," which airs on Thursdays. He joined us from our New York bureau. J.J.
Abrams is the executive producer, and he joined us from NPR West. Thanks, both, for joining us. NOLAN: Thank you. ABRAMS: Thank you. DONVAN: And tomorrow, a new book focuses attention on the Trail of Tears. This is the TALK OF THE NATION, from NPR News. I'm John Donvan, in Washington.A Model for Success in Black Communities Commentary Commentator Eric Copage says that African-Americans should consider modeling what other communities have successfully done to overcome their hardships.
ED GORDON, host: From high prison incarceration to low high school graduation rates, African-Americans continue to struggle to reverse alarming trends that plague many in the black community. Commentator Eric Copage says that African-Americans should consider modeling what other communities have successfully done to overcome their hardships. ERIC COPAGE: I was recently at a dinner party in a Manhattan apartment with a group of friends, all of them black except for a single white visitor. Towards the end of the evening, the conversation turned to how blacks can improve themselves socially, financially and in the area of education. One black man, a lawyer, blurted out, `Blacks should be more like Jews.' I'd head this many times before.